In the effort to discern whether this age old Catholic Tradition of Praying to or for or with Dead People has any validity, we will first spend a few paragraphs discerning:
What actually constitutes a “Live Person”?
As well as: What has God told (or inkle to us via the Scripture of The Holy Spirit) on the subject?
And also: What is the difference between being alive and dead?
A Fact). This old man, or you, could cross that threshold from this life into eternity before the sun sets tonight or rises tomorrow. For those of us that do is there hope that we live forever in eternal bliss praising Him that gave us life and when does it start? We believe we know when it ends. NEVER
Another Fact). There are many scientific studies and debates that continue, concerning a cosmic happening, the ongoing product of which attempts explaining how our bodies evolved or are evolving. (there are MANY sides to this discussion) One side proposes that God does not exist therefore, knew nothing of it and another contends that God, be the architect of it all. (Me thinks the entire “debate” is prideful silliness with very few fruitful side effects.) These studies for the most part, concentrate on THE HUMAN MAMMAL. Such studies have serious trouble, of their own, let alone in giving reason to the existence of our Spirit and its ability to control or be controlled by the body. The Bible (even if viewed as an historical document) really has the patent on that issue. (Don’t you wish some earthling could PROVE scientifically that Body and Spirit coincide, as it would have to be able to put a Legal end to abortion for starters???)
But we are NOT dealing with the body theory here as much as the Body “plus” Spirit Issue, in that we can prove we have a body by looking in a mirror, but prayer takes place in Spirit and this writing is about “prayer”… so anyway back to the Dead People.
How is it that we are alive? Question #1). Were we alive prior to the time in our Mothers womb?Answer: #1): NO Question 1a) Were we dead?Answer 1a): NO. It may be that we simply did not exist, although, If we did exist it was in spirit and that spirit belonged to God but we had no Life of our own. Question #2). When did this life of body and spirit begin?Answer #2): At the time of conception. The bible states that God knew Jeremiah even before and in the womb, so it should probably be reckoned that, He knew the rest of us also and Christians all seem to agree that “Life” is our Gift from God. 2a). My Mother knows there was life at that time. She has reminded me of the times “She got kicked by me”. Question #3). Are we alive now?Answer #3): My fingers having typed this and you reading it, is proof. (or look in a mirror)
Are we still Alive After WE DIE an earthly death?
Question #1). Will there be life within me if my body gets squished by a Mack Truck while driving tonight and a Doctor says “Sorry he didn’t make it” to anyone that might care?
Answer #1): The body would most assuredly be DEAD. My Spirit would be alive and no longer accountable to “time“.
Question #2). Presuming there has been a participation with the Triune Gods Will, during this “time” on earth, to at least a minimum degree of satisfaction in His Judgment: Will my person be in heaven (as the Irish in me has to put it) Before the devil knows this old man got Macked?
Answer #2): Yes (well at least my person won’t be Here). So in Christian thinking that option is out, in that a major portion of the Christian concept of earthly death is the separating of body and spirit.
Question #3). At that point could my person (my spirit) suddenly become a different person , then it was when connected to my body on earth, in the areas of love for my family, friends or my fellow man in general?
Answer #3): That would be weird, and really make this whole “earthly existence” thing meaningless and trivial to the point that for God Himself to have come to earth, (In the Person of Jesus) and do all that He did, would have been a waste of “time”. Some Examples of Living Spirits with and without bodies. as follows:
Within the Good Book, many times we read of the earthly appearance of Angels. (so apparently they can commute back and forth, in that they are not restricted with an earthly corpus (human body) and are not accountable to the commodity known as time)
As well as prior to Our Lords Passion-Death-Resurrection we read of a very true story being recorded when Jesus took three of his Apostles on a walk up a mountain and an apparition with Moses and Elijah happened. (both known to BE DEAD) And the heavenly guests with Jesus looked real enough that Peter and the guys wanted to set up tents for them.
Then there was when Our Lord Died on The Cross for men of all times, at which time He told (the one we have all come to refer to as) “the good thief” who died that day, “this day you will be with ME in My Fathers Kingdom”. (or “paradise” or “His Own Kingdom” pretty much depending on which translation of scripture you prefer to follow and with or without the quotation marks) but anyway: And “graves opened” and me thinks what happened was the dead (and some of these people had really deader then dead bodies) came to life.AND THEN WHAT?
a). They were taken to heaven after being seen by the locals? (probable)
b). We have some really really old people walking around here 2000 years later. (Not likely or me thinks Genis Book of World Records would have caught up with them at some point.)
c). God allowed them to die before Jesus’ earthly time, raised them from the dead for some unbeknownst reason and they have since died a second death? (No “c” doesn’t make sense. So either there is a “d” around somewhere or “a” is starting to look better.)
And if those two times and other recorded events in Scripture are not enough to ratify the existence of “living people” outside this finite world of time and corporal reasoning. Our Tradition has recorded numerous “apparitions” throughout the centuries that have been painstakingly scrutinized by reliable investigators (With many case studies taking 30-50 years and longer). Although many have been found to fall short of the scrutiny, hundreds upon hundreds have been deemed to be authentic. As well as many of us, have no problem in “believing” the “scientific documentary” horror shows on TV (In many cases taking up to A MONTH to produce) where the evil ghosts of humans come back to haunt others. So if they exist at least that should make it little more plausible for Saints to be in heaven. (Additional thoughts on this last thought)
My entire point of the rambling is: THE SPIRIT OF EACH HUMAN EVER CONCEIVED: LIVES.
a). Because the Bible tells us so, it should be so to our faith. Even if we don’t “see that” in those Inspired Writings, we have been taught by tradition.
b). Tradition points out that there are people in heaven and that some (possibly the Elect as they have come to be known) have been given the privilege by God, of from time to time being messengers to mere earthlings, delivering inspiration through which increased or renewed fervor of souls has often been the result. For most, these (experiences) stay away from the realm of superstition and within the graces of justifiable faith making Magnification of the Glory of the Kingdom as the end product. But furthermore, even if we are not willing to believe in Tradition.
c). We all seem to have the inner inkling, and this would seem to be the collective workings of The Holy Spirit. In that we each know someone. (and of course Jesus is the First Fruit) Whom, by Gods obvious graces, has lead a life that is inspiring to us. Causing us to feel “they should be in heaven by now”. Maybe it is our own Mother (or Mary Mother of Jesus) or our own Father or a close Friend or Mother Theresa of Calcutta or St. Peter the Apostle or Billy Graham (when he leaves us) … SOMEONE…
c1). Some troubles in following this type of inkling are:
a). Without proper heavenly discernment, it can be “judging” instead of “honoring”.
b). If that Someone is yourself, spiritually this would seem to be a direct assault on the humility necessary to be a serious candidate. In Conclusion:
1). Once Given the Gift of Life, all individuals live forever in one form or another, ( body & spirit / spirit separated from body / body reunited with spirit ) but the longest lasting “form” of life will be that of the (Body Reunited with Spirit / resurrection / eternity).
2). No one is really totally “dead” other then in the minds of persons that may not have a true faith in the / pre-time / earthly / and eternal Jesus, and are only willing to put trust in the “time” factor. That lack of faith is, one of the tricks of the enemy and, has no bearing on the reality of the situation.
3). If any Individual is a person of prayer on earth, they will be all the more a person of prayer after leaving this earth and while in heaven. At that point in our existence prayer will finally be what we are best at. Without the distractions of this world (and knowing those things that earlier were taken on faith ) the individual spirit, could only improve in the communication factor with the Object of ALL Prayer. (that being The Triune God)
So when it comes to Praying To The Dead
1). What is commonly called “Praying TO the dead” …
a). Makes sense in the form of asking them to intercede ..which if one thinks about it is really praying WITH that person in that the intercession being asked for, is to intercede with God whom they have the privilege of being with to one extent or another. Much like at any earthly get together or worship service when we pray communally. With a couple exceptions:
a1). Discernment of Spirits is needed when one no longer has the advantage of visual contact.
a2). We are not able to be as pure in prayer of Spirit, as they are, because of our earthly baggage.
2). What is commonly called “Praying FOR the Dead’..
a). Makes sense in giving Glory and Praise to the Triune God for the work God has done with that person and in Thanksgiving for the privilege of having been allowed to see God through that persons life.
b). It makes sense to Intercede for that person who is no longer physically here and be willing to make right, any wrongs to others (that are still walking this earth) who may have been inadvertently harmed by them. (Gods Justice can allow this, but that is up to Him, and correct Heavenly Discernment is needed )
3). What is commonly called “Praying WITH the Dead”
a). Makes sense to allow ones self to be ready to “take up where they left off” in any known virtuous areas of their earthly life. That if by adding ones own Actual Graces to the ministries they were involved in, we can continue building Gods Kingdom on earth until it is our turn to leave here. (we can be pretty sure “the dead person” will be praying for or with us during such endeavors for the needed graces, because obviously they were used to it)
4). But if we are willing to say “I will not pray for the dead because they are dead and my prayers can no longer help them”.
a). That is putting a lot of presumptuous power into our own intercessory ability to help the “living”.
b). One is denying the Life of the Spirit of God which is still a part of the Gift of Life given to that “dead person”. That Spirit which is still alive., Only somewhere on the way to be fully united with The Object of their Complete Desire and their own God Given Glorified body, same as you and me, although they are one big step ahead in the process.
To which if “I will not pray to or for or with the dead” would be our conviction…
1). Why have a “funeral”? (and one certainly could not attend one) For if we are dead for a minute we are dead for an eternity and having a public gathering and even one prayer (private or communal) would be a falsehood to the conviction.
2). Have Christian Burials of all time been an insult to God?